New to Course

mbabiash · #1 Tue, Jul 22, 2008 5:15 PM

Chris, Wade or anyone,
This spring I bought a boat, joined a ski club 2 months ago and have skied approximately 10-12 sets in that time. I had never skied the course before, so everything is so new to me. I started at 28mph 15off and have progressed to 32mph 15 off. I run 32 about half the time. I know there is a lot to fix so go easy. I ski a 67 goode 9100 w/ RS-1 boots (LFF). No idea what fin settings are because I have no caliper. My goal this summer through fall is to get though 34mph (I'm 35 years old) consistently and perhaps take it down to 22 off. Pretty stiff goals for first year skiing the course but I feel like I'm progressing every time out. I know my posture is bad on off side pull (broken at waist) and I need to square shoulders to the boat. Any tips on anything else or how to fix these problems would be great.
Link to video 32mph 15 off.
http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/k … pass32.flv

Last edited by mbabiash (Wed, Jul 23, 2008 12:55 AM)

RKSskier · #2 Wed, Jul 23, 2008 12:12 AM

just a couple things I would say may not hurt to try... counter rotate out of the edge change heading towards the apex, shift a little more weight forward by standing up over the front of the ski more (not pushing on it, but shifting the knee and hip forward), and then remembering to initiate the turn with your hips, not your shoulders. (I'm not saying you need to ski like marcus brown or anything, but you better believe that mapple, parrish and cox all initiate the turn with there hips even though there not drastically dropped) Those things could help the turns a bit, but then you are also losing ground off the wake. (not maintaining the angle you achieved out of the turn) Make sure you relax, and dont pull in or let up at the wakes. Opening up to the boat will also help this. (keeping chest and shoulders facing towards the boat)
Have fun on the water and hope some of this helps.

2gofaster · #3 Wed, Jul 23, 2008 12:25 AM

You are definitely losing angle at the wake. Squaring your shoulders/opening up to the boat will definitely help, especially on your offside pull across the wakes. I found that I actually look at the rear view mirror of the boat once I turn in for the gates and continue that until the 2nd wake. This really helps my upper body to stay countered to my lower body. In doing so, your mass is moving cross course and your lower body can be angled so that the ski is on edge also. I never even look to the bouy until I'm outbound off the 2nd wake and starting my counter rotation away from the boat. At first I found this odd, as before as soon as I got to the apex of the turn, I would turn my head and seek out the bouy all the way across course. But pretty soon it became natural.

ChrisRossi · #4 Wed, Jul 23, 2008 10:59 PM

I think you look great. May be just start a touch wider for your gates and ski a whole bunch more the rest of the summer!

mbabiash · #5 Thu, Jul 24, 2008 2:14 AM

Thanks for all the info. I am going to focus on one thing at a time, however I do think that the counter rotation at the apex will help squaring up to the boat and hopefully they will come together. All I know is that I am having a blast and can't wait to go out every time. (usually 2 times a week for a couple of sets) not enough but I'll take what I can get. Chris, gates are hard for me, I do it different every time. I read your article on gates and it is great. I also read Schnitz article on coordinates and that is interesting also. I'm just guessing out there and always get a bad gate. Sorry the video starts too late to show setup but I will work on starting wider for starters and try to get some consistency going.
Thanks guys,
Matt

HO410 · #6 Fri, Jul 25, 2008 4:02 AM

You've identified something that is very important. Your gate must be REPEATABLE.

Pick a reference point, many skiers use the 55 pre-gates. Do you pull out early and glide?
Pick a a point on the boat: when pylon, rear seat, swim deck, etc... passes the 55 pre-gate,
you pull out. Are you doing a short set-up like the one handed gate? Pick a point where you
are even with the pre-gates, 5 feet in front, 10 feet in front, etc. Find what works for you.

You can do the same thing with the boat and the red gate buoys if you are having trouble
timing your turn in for the gates (although it will probably be further up on the boat). Pay
attention to what you are doing, and identify the things that give you a good start at the
course. Once you've found what works, repeat, repeat, repeat.

moomba1 · #7 Thu, Nov 6, 2008 2:00 PM

mbabiash,watched your video several times.you hooked your ski hard on your pull in for the gates and loaded the line excessively standing you up before the middle of the boat wake.remember your ski will tend over rotate on your off side.progressively pull in for the gates and concentrate on a straight arm ski away from the handle body position.focus on skiing as close to the right hand gate ball as you can.i thought your 1,3,5 side was exellent.coming out of 2,4,6 you where hugging the handle not allowing your upper body to lean away.the majority of people i teach never let thier arms go straight after finishing the turn.its the hardest to teach because its your lifeline and you want it as close to you as possible.progressive on your gate pull and straight arm out of 2,4,6 and i think your gonna kill it.watch a pro ski video then watch your self. repeat this over and over again its the best tool besides ski school.

mbabiash · #8 Thu, Nov 6, 2008 4:30 PM

moomba1
Thanks for the advice. As you know, it is so hard to think of more than one thing at a time while on the course. I watched my video again and noticed that my arms do pull in towards my body at the end of my off-side turn. Since that video; I managed to run 34 mph 15 off several times before our ski season ended. However, the only thing I have worked on are my gates. I have tried the one handed gate and I love it, however, our lake is too short for pre gates. When I pull out at the right time and make a nice smooth turn, I notice that I do not load the rope like I did in the video and I am early. Is there an alternative method of knowing when to pull out without using the pre gates as a reference?

I am going to Miami in January for my wife's conference and will be taking some lessons from Arturo Nelson while I am there weather depending.

moomba1 · #9 Fri, Nov 7, 2008 2:59 PM

get wider on your pull out stand tall and keep your ski on its outside edge. this will buy you more time to set up for the gates.the one handed gate can be your best friend or your worst enemy.timed right it's awesome. time it wrong and your going to be surveying the bottom of the lake with your forehead.

moomba1 · #10 Fri, Nov 7, 2008 3:15 PM

RKSskier wrote:
just a couple things I would say may not hurt to try... counter rotate out of the edge change heading towards the apex, shift a little more weight forward by standing up over the front of the ski more (not pushing on it, but shifting the knee and hip forward), and then remembering to initiate the turn with your hips, not your shoulders. (I'm not saying you need to ski like marcus brown or anything, but you better believe that mapple, parrish and cox all initiate the turn with there hips even though there not drastically dropped) Those things could help the turns a bit, but then you are also losing ground off the wake. (not maintaining the angle you achieved out of the turn) Make sure you relax, and dont pull in or let up at the wakes. Opening up to the boat will also help this. (keeping chest and shoulders facing towards the boat)
Have fun on the water and hope some of this helps.

moomba 1 here,what is a fool proof way to initiate the turn with the hips and not the shoulders?it seems as if the pros all shift thier weight back or away about ten feet before the buoy some more extreme than others.i cant figure out what is actually happening here.is it back ,away, a combination of the two, or some kind of magical hip movement.thanks.

HO410 · #11 Sun, Nov 23, 2008 1:07 AM

Do you have a particular clip in mind? Because I'm having a little trouble picturing what you are thinking about. At first blush, it sounds like you are talking about a split radius turn. It can be great for getting around a buoy but it can leave you in pretty crummy position to keep skiing.

Instead, what I think you are seeing is a combination of things adding together. A strong and efficient pull followed by a quality edge change. The ski is advancing on the skier and casting out. That 10 foot mark is around where skiers start to counter. Countering will keep, and to some extent increase, the ski's outbound motion. This may give the illusion of weight shifting back, but I think you are seeing the skier's body decelerate faster than the ski. If we are talking about skiing very short lines, and I am not mistake, the skier is incredibly light on the ski as they reach maximum width and the ski starts to turn back in.

As for the foolproof question. It all depends on you and what physical cues produce the beneficial movements for you. Generally we are looking to keep the body dynamic and driving through the turn. And I am not sure about the language of initiating the turn with your hips. I think Chris more often talks about being in a position to let the ski do the work so that you can just ride it back in. You do not want to fall back on the ski, I can say that much. I'll let the pro-coaches address this question further, I'm finding myself in a distinct lack of precise language at the moment.