Schnitz is correct:  acceleration is change in velocity.  If you are skiing directly behind the boat going 36 mph, with your ski pointed at the middle of stern of the boat, you are not accelerating.  If the boat speeds up to 40 mph, you will accelerate along with the boat until you and the boat are going 40 mph, then you will not be accelerating any more.  A change in velocity, or speed, is called acceleration. 

Regardless of the path we take as we ski from buoy to buoy, our direction down the course is a constant 36 (or whatever) mph (other than the minor changes to boat speed as we load the rope and pull against the boat.)  Since we are traveling a much greater distance than the boat as we zig-zag or "S-turn" down the course, we must go faster than the boat speed. 

I believe that we are accelerating from our pull after the buoy up until we begin to initiate our edge change before the next buoy.  Then we slow down (decelerate) probably to some constant speed as we turn around the buoy.

Now what I don't understand is how you get from one bouy to the next without wanting to create as much angle as close to perpendicular to the boat as possible and thus creating as much load as possible in order to create as much angle as possible? 

You don't create load or angle by skiing behind the boat straight down course (other then the load caused by the friction of the ski on the water, the water holding up the ski, and the wind resistance against the skier).  As you ski from one buoy to the next, the more you angle and oppose the boat to get to the next buoy, the more load you have on the rope.  It seems like less angle and less load will cause you to travel down course more and you won't make it to the buoy.

So how do you ski without massive loads and angles?
And, as Schnitz keeps asking, how do you maintain speed in the turn?

First off if you like to pull realize that the rope will only stretch so much. Once you get to the end of that stretch the rope and boat are going to be pulling you the other way initiating an edge change. If you load the line very hard coming out of a turn then you will get an edge change that is before the wakes and thus not optimizing the best area to use the pull from the boat. Kstate, the fist part of your post sounds like you are working your self towards the right idea but that you might be loading the rope unnecessarily. It is great to have a patient turn that allows you to ski into a tight line with sufficient angle that you will be able to sustain. If you find yourself in that position then you are prime for letting the boat do all of the work for you. Maintain speed through the turn and ski into a good box, arms straight/hips to the handle/trusting balance to rope, and then ride out the pull from the boat until THE BOAT pulls you off your edge through the second wake setting up a wide/early/patient turn that allows you to repeat the above for the other side of the course. I hope this makes some sense without all of the physics talk involved.

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet or not but having watched alot of guys run 38 and 39 and they do it by staying on the handle a long time even after an unload or an edge change.  I think this is KEY when it comes to casting out your ski and keeping width generated from the pull.

I think the confusion, Wade, was that you were talking acceleration relative to a stationary point, and others were talking in relation to the boat. Everything's relative, right?

Watch the West Coast Slalom video all the way through and you can see just such a device being used in just such a manner.

TW

ColinBuchanan wrote:

then ride out the pull from the boat until THE BOAT pulls you off your edge through the second wake setting up a wide/early/patient turn that allows you to repeat the above for the other side of the course. I hope this makes some sense without all of the physics talk involved.

Colin,
I thought your analogy was really very Cool. I had never thought about the Dynamic of Angle VS. Motion and how the Boat boat can and does help initiate a well timed and effecient edge change...

This is the stuff great Leverging Techniques are made of...   -"Smarter Not Harder"!

Are there waterproof GPS tracking devices you can put on yourself when your skiing and then somehow view the information on your PC to track your path through the course, speed, force, etc? 

Wouldn't it be cool if ZO made a device that you could strap onto your binding or life jacket that sends the skiers info back to the boat that helped the speed control know more about what the skier is doing and in turn give a better pull?  Then maybe the ZO could report the skiers info at the end of every pass...  If the device was somewhere close to the slalom ski itself ZO would be able to judge the pass without even needing a judge in the boat.  Lots of possibilities now that I think about it.

kstateskier wrote:

Are there waterproof GPS tracking devices you can put on yourself when your skiing and then somehow view the information on your PC to track your path through the course, speed, force, etc? 

Wouldn't it be cool if ZO made a device that you could strap onto your binding or life jacket that sends the skiers info back to the boat that helped the speed control know more about what the skier is doing and in turn give a better pull?  Then maybe the ZO could report the skiers info at the end of every pass...  If the device was somewhere close to the slalom ski itself ZO would be able to judge the pass without even needing a judge in the boat.  Lots of possibilities now that I think about it.

Check out the "Shadow Box"...http://www.proskicoach.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=710

This little gadget shows some real promise for the future of many applications.  -Sounds like the Brit.'s already have it figured out though!

Thomas Wayne wrote:

Watch the West Coast Slalom video

Where do I watch this video. I wanna see it NOW!

jz wrote:

Didn't Kent over on the water ski forum work on such a device a couple years ago that would capture skier GPS readings, data from a strain guage for line load, boat speed and other data?  Was that what was used in the West Coast vid?

Yes, Kent never did figure out how to assemble all the pieces so he sent Wade all the parts!  Hopefully Wade can "get er dun" and we can all learn from this tool.  No, this is not the device used in the WC video!

If anyone wants to train with this device NOW, please let either Wade or myself know.  It is very expensive but worth every penny as it will identify exactly what you need to change.  Stop guessing!

Schnitz!

Last edited by Schnitz (Thu, May 14, 2009 11:30 AM)

"and we can all learn from this tool."

No need to call Wade names Schnitz!

Or how about the Bernoulli Principle?

The basis for fluid dynamics and the interaction of our ski and fin with the water.