Dave Miller's response;

Wow, that's a tough one. As you know, I have worked with West Coast style, Andy Mapple's style and even traditional. Then, I have my own style. I believe there are different ways to accomplish the same goal. Unlike math where there is only one answer to the equation. I believe that many different styles can get good results in skiing the course at short line lengths.  Some of the keys that every style must utilize to be efficient in running shortline are;  the skier must get angle with out to much load.  To achieve this it is critical not to rotate the upper body or head too quickly. You can not drop your inside shoulder as you make your turn either.  By keeping more level and not over rotating especially right at the finish of the turn, you will load properly with out losing angle.

The West Coast style turn is very effective, however, I feel you need a combination of many styles to be the best. Once you have completed the turn and both hands are on the handle you need to have some rotation of the hips shoulders and head. This is most important on the off side, it is almost impossible to stay open with your hips and shoulders on your offside and get angle (I have tried and get no angle).   This transition needs to be smooth and progressive. If a combination of West Coast and traditional are used I believe you will be most efficient.  The next part is to create a leveraged position which of course is best created when your turn is completed as described above.

The key to this is of course is doing the first part right. Once you have completed the turn properly without over rotation and load you can now move away from the boat. You cannot move away from the boat with good angle unless you are behind, yet balanced on the ski. You have to be stacked properly in other words you have to lean. I'm sorry but you can't run 39 standing upright, with out lean, or should I say without staying on the back side of the ski.  If you watch any great skier, any style at 39 crossing the wakes, they are on the back side of the ski or away from the boat.

They have created leverage, which enables them to create angle, speed and width.   Ideally, it is best to keep the arms into your body as much as possible. In some cases due to overloading, you will loose your arms or they will get away from you at the second wake. If this happens, the West Coast style works great for recovery. It is more beneficial to let your arms way out if you have no other choice than lose angle and let your ski come off edge.   This happens to me quite often. But because I incorporate new school and traditional, I can recover from a lot of crap.

I feel a combination of all styles is the best when used properly.

Dave Miller

Ok here’s my little rant on this subject, and it’s not really an answer.


West coast. New school. Old school. What’s right? You can’t argue with the geometry, and physics that come with skiing in the slalom course.
That being said, the right way is the way that works best for that individual’s skill, fitness, balance and the ability to maintain that balance in the most efficient manner.       

Obtaining the optimum course position, maintaining that position and balance for the line length being skied all the way through the course is completely individual. What works for Marcus Brown might not work for you, or for me. Our bodies are different as well as our minds. If we all embraced the concept that the rules are there are no rules. We will all get better.

I do to agree with Schnitz if you practice poor technique you get poor results. David is also on point with his thoughts. 
But the big question is, as Schnitz asked in the first post…………
What is right?
I say it depends…………………….
…….. and its always evolving.

Sharing our thoughts and theories like this is the best thing for us all to improve. Lets keep it up!

Wade,

Two things; First, what is NE style?  Secondly, you state; "The skier with the best style will ski with the highest average speed through the course".  At the shortest line lengths, both the highest speed path and the lowest speed path will converge.  This being said, why not ski this one ideal line on every pass?  If this is the case, is it not the slowest line also?

Schnitz!

Wade,

What I am saying is the slowest line and the fastest line are the same at ultra shortline.  You can call it either one and still be saying the same thing. 

Schnitz!

If you could measure the speed of the skier for the length of the pass, then the one that had the highest "lowest speed" would probably run the most buoys.

I'm not sure how this can also be the slowest line. The skier is moving faster in this example.

Ofcourse, when you ski it, yes, it would feel the slowest - because you are spending more time moving away from the boat and less time getting dragged by it. The boat's moving fast, so if you're being dragged by it, then it feels fast.

Like everything else in skiing it's backwards. Fast feels slow.

Say it out loud, N E Style.

= 6

My 2 cents (which in todays economy are only worth 1 cent anyway)

i think the terms 'speed', 'fast', and 'slow' are being used in two differing ways in this discussion. I believe Schnitz is referring to 'slow' as being that path which results from the  LEAST amount of CHANGE of speed .ie. the path that has the least amount of acceleration/decelertion in it - where the CHANGE in MOMENTUM is minimized.
I believe Schnitz is speaking of CONSERVING momentum by maintaining it at as uniform a level as possible to still make the course.
This is very consistent with what Chris/Wade have been telling us. you absolutely need momentum to ski the course but if you achieve too much (as in achieving too much speed for a given angle) you are going to have to lose some of it (decelerate) to make the course. Since F=MA it requires energy to change molmentum. The greater the change in momentum the more energy (from the skiier) required. Efficient is all about conserving energy - which means conserving momentum.